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The key to the episode was "All Along the Watchtower".  Every bit of dialogue in this show has a purpose...but when the characters in the show are actually saying the lyrics of the background music as dialogue...it's kinda freaking obvious there is "something" to it.  Specifically, the lines "there's too much confusion", "No reason to get excited" and "I can't get no relief" are all spoken as dialogue by the new "cylons"...if they actually are cylons....which I doubt.  Therefore, it makes sense to identify WHY the writers chose that song (who cares how good the rendition was).

The lyrics are listed below.  Please note this song is essentially, about class warfare which was an underlining message throughout season 3.  The song references a Joker and Thief vs. the Princes in the Tower.  Jokers are members of a society that support the ruling class.  It's important to point out that all four people who believe they are cylons are essentially the servant class or work/support someone in a ruling position.  Thieves sneak into things to take something away in the same manner in which the cylons snuck into the human society to steal the planet and the human way of life.  The song tells of the Joker and Thief working together to challenge the princes in the watchtower who represent the "establishment".  Throughout the season there were references to the "elite" and "ruling class".  Could this be foreshadowing a collaboration between the Joker (servant class of human society) and Thief (cylons) to over though the current ruling class (Adama, Roslyn, et al?)

Additionally, the song also ends with a reference to the "wind began to howl" which is representing a change in the weather.  To make the connection to the song even more obvious, Helo specifically states "There is a change in the weather" about to occur.

Either way...damn good stuff.  It makes me wish I had paid more attention in Literature classes in college!

Lyrics....

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,

"There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief.

Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,

None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."

"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,

"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.

But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,

So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."

All along the watchtower, princes kept the view

While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.

Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,

Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.

Or... it represents a song from Earth.

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YOU'RE IN IL COUNTRY

Yes, it probably is a song from Earth...but why did the writers pick that song?  That was my point.  The writers could have picked any song ever recorded...but they picked that one for some reason.  Somehow I doubt they were just getting stoned to the Hendrix version of it when they were coming up with plot ideas...but then again you never know.

Just on two of the things in this thread. According to RDM the 4 ARE indeed Cylons just a different breed of Cylon. Article

And Reading Bear McCreary's blog on the music in the episode answers a few questions on why that song was chosen. Blog

I have been thinking that Tigh is a Cylon since the last episode with Deanna. When she said "I'm so sorry" there was a little *ping* in my brain that said to me "TIGH!!!!" don't know why. But it did. The others though....I have to admit I was a little taken aback.

Oh and may I say, as it is my first post on these boards...that the Space boards are so well behaved compared to the Sci Fi Boards. lol.

Welcome to the boards Nythaka, and thanks for posting those two links - they certainly help clear up a lot of the questions people are discussing.

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Darren*:

Or... it represents a song from Earth.

that's wat i've been saying in the other thread >-<

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I think all it is is a song from Earth.  If they had picked a different song, I suspect that it too would have some special meaning; it is one of those things that is not provable.  Sometimes a song is just a song.

LouPadonia:

  The song tells of the Joker and Thief working together to challenge the princes in the watchtower who represent the "establishment".  Throughout the season there were references to the "elite" and "ruling class".  Could this be foreshadowing a collaboration between the Joker (servant class of human society) and Thief (cylons) to over though the current ruling class (Adama, Roslyn, et al?)

I'm sure the song's lyrics have meaning for future plot.  But it is difficult to picture the leaders of a tiny group of humans desperately fleeing for their lives as an elite, or a ruling class.  The Cylons are a better candidate for the ruling class.  Who now rules the twelve colonies? Who rules new Caprica?  Who wants to enslave or massacre whom? 

poomanguydude:

Darren*:

Or... it represents a song from Earth.

that's wat i've been saying in the other thread >-<

 

Indeed, but that implies that the people of the 12 colonies are speaking English which doesn't make any sense at all. 

Satai_Nick:

poomanguydude:

Darren*:

Or... it represents a song from Earth.

that's wat i've been saying in the other thread >-<

 

Indeed, but that implies that the people of the 12 colonies are speaking English which doesn't make any sense at all. 

well, I think they're doing what they did with stargate, just have everyone speak english, so you won't have to waste tonns of time with the translations and stuff.

and for every language they translated BSG on their DVD's and stuff, you could say the same thing "why are they all speaking spanish, french ext? they're seperated from earth"

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 The is perfect for what they must be feeling when they found out who they are. But why a earth song or is a song just a song.

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Life is good.Like God kissed me with a mouth full of scotch.

The humans were the ruling class and created the Cylons to seve them. There are just too many references to class warfare this season (even within the fleet) to overlook the meaning.  The escape or “exodus” is probably supposed to represent a Moses-like coming of age period: Long journey and a dying leader who will not live to see the Promised Land, etc.

While the four are obviously Cylons based upon what came out yesterday, they are also "fundamentally different" Cylons according to the same interview; and the fact that the four new Cylons are all in a subornation role to someone else is also very clear.  Maybe I'm reading too much into this (that comes from 10 years of marriage to someone who reads into everything I say!), but the Joker / Thief imagery from the Watchtower seems too clear to over look:  There are two groups of cylons, one that snuck in like a thief to human society to steel...and another that is supporting the ruling class of the humans (which was the traditional role of a Joker vs. the current erroneous role portrayed similar to a clown).

Satai_Nick:

poomanguydude:

Darren*:

Or... it represents a song from Earth.

that's wat i've been saying in the other thread >-<

 

Indeed, but that implies that the people of the 12 colonies are speaking English which doesn't make any sense at all. 

Here's my theory: The original series had the tagline "There are those who believe that life here began out there..." What if it's backwards in this version and the Galacticans just don't know it? Sometime in the future humanity left Earth due to some ecological disaster that made the planet no longer habitible. The human race spread out across the galaxy and formed what eventually became the Twelve Colonies. This could explain why everybody speaks and writes in english or has ordinary names like Bill, Laura and Sharon, among other cultural similarities. Over thousands of years the knowledge that they came from Earth and their true history got re-written so that Kobol was identified as the birthplace of humanity. The Human Cylons are the original human explorers from Earth and they have always been secret participants in Colonial history. The reason there are only 12 of them is that they are genetically enhanced clones, possibly all that remains of original Earth humanity, not machines and they had a hand in guiding the colonial humans and their culture. They did this to create a broader genetic pool to possibly re-populate Earth once it has had a chance to recover from whatever calamity happened there. Once enough time passed, the Human Cylons participated in the creation of the Toaster Cylons and then started the war. They did this to reduce the number of Colonials and spur them to make the run for Earth with the ultimate goal of re-populating the rejuvinated planet. The song "All Along the Watchtower" was written by Bob Dylan in the late 1960's and made popular when it was covered by Jimi Hendrix a couple of years later. I believe that it was a cylon signal that was designed to activate "sleeper agent" cylons with the ultimate purpose of helping the fleet find Earth. The only way they could know the lyrics is if the song somehow came from the Human Cylon's past experiences. Ron Moore has confirmed that Tigh, Tyrol, Anders and Foster are all cylons which just leaves one more as yet unknown human cylon. I believe that the final unknown cylon is Admiral Adama and that he doesn't know it. He was the one who initally suggested that they make a run for Earth, even though at the time he said it was only a myth and he was using it as a means to keep boost morale among the survivors. I think it's possible he was programmed to lead the way to Earth even though he didn't know at the time that it was a real place. Let's not forget that the human cylon Leoben once said that Adama was a cylon. He didn't specify which Adama, Bill or Lee, but I think it's obvious now that he was refering to the admiral. At the start of each episode it's stated that the cylons have a plan...maybe this is it. All of this post is just speculation and I may be completely wrong about everything, but it's been fun sharing.

LouPadonia:

The humans were the ruling class and created the Cylons to seve them. There are just too many references to class warfare this season (even within the fleet) to overlook the meaning.  The escape or “exodus” is probably supposed to represent a Moses-like coming of age period: Long journey and a dying leader who will not live to see the Promised Land, etc.

While the four are obviously Cylons based upon what came out yesterday, they are also "fundamentally different" Cylons according to the same interview; and the fact that the four new Cylons are all in a subornation role to someone else is also very clear.  Maybe I'm reading too much into this (that comes from 10 years of marriage to someone who reads into everything I say!), but the Joker / Thief imagery from the Watchtower seems too clear to over look:  There are two groups of cylons, one that snuck in like a thief to human society to steel...and another that is supporting the ruling class of the humans (which was the traditional role of a Joker vs. the current erroneous role portrayed similar to a clown).

Since the first Cylon war the humans were not a ruling class over the cylons.  The cylons have their own ruling class: the seven human-like models.  The metallic cylons are treated like non-entities.  Maybe they should rebel against the seven models. 

This thread, as far as the ones I've read so far, contains the most insightful and relevant arguments I've read to date. I think the theories presented here are bang on. It's interesting to note the following lyrics of the song, as posted above:

"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,

"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.

But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,

So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."

If you really listen to what Lee Adama was saying on the stand, I believe he was essentially saying exactly that (although by other reasoning in this thread, I'm calling him a Thief, which is to say he's a Cylon, and I do not believe he is a Cylon.) I just think those 4 lines sum up what he said about the current state of their human race, ie: "you want to call Baltar a traitor, then call me a traitor, and the president, and the admiral, etc. Enough is enough, we've been through that, everyone was forgiven, let's move on."

I think the writers have used that song all along as the basis for the evolution of season 3 and the outcome of the season finale. RDM says that the 2 hour movie will be about the Pegasus, but will hint at things to come in season 4, and I think they'll use that song somehow. But, as pointed out, when actual lyrics are used as dialogue in the show, and the relations of the Thief and the Jokers as mentioned in the original post... I think the writers heard that song, interpreted the definitions of the 2 classes, and very creatively built the season around those lyrics.

In the link to the RDM interview, there's this snippet:

R: Now there are two half-human, half-Cylon babies -- Hera and the Chief and Cally's child. Will you be dealing with that?

RM: Oh, yeah.

R: Are there other half-human, half-Cylon children?

RM: You never know.

Ummmm... did anyone else catch that?  If Admiral Adama is a Cylon (as so many people have speculated, and there's a darn good chance they're right).... wouldn't that make Lee a half-human, half-Cylon child?  Perhaps the oldest one... perhaps the first one!

Remember when #8 (Lucy Lawless) saw one of the final 5 and said "Forgive me, I didn't know" (or something to that affect).  Maybe she was looking at Lee.

Hmmmmmm.....!!!!! 

I could be way off base, but no matter what, this thread is great, especially the original post. Well done!